The Challenge Mound 8/20/2012 7pm

[Mark walks in, and announces with a howl that can be heard throughout the Caern that he hereby challenges Works for food for the position of Den Father. With a few short yips he makes it clear that he deferentially requests the presence of the Master of Challenges if he is available. There is no urgency in the howl, no rage behind it, it simply is.]

Works for Food walks onto the Mound he is wearing some tattered dirty clothes a Tool Belt and has a Caulking Gun in one Hand. He Replies in a borken cackling Voice...

I have heard you Challenge and we will await the Master of Challenge...



OOC: I will have to Call Pat/Casey because his Internet has been intermittent at best for a couple of months. So dont be inpatient but this could take some time before we get him online.

*wanders in to watch as it involves his packmate*

*smiles and nods to the others before attending to his PDA, making notes about meetings and phone calls quietly so as not to disturb those less tech-loving*

::pads over in Lupus form and watches::

"Works-for-food, Any idea what your desired challenge will be? We can at least gather any needed supplies, and make the area ready for whatever type of contest you have in mind."

[There is no emnity, no bitteness in marks voice, It's a challenge for a position, but it clearly isn't personal.]

Brings the Light of Luna comes to observe the challenge, but he seems a little confused at the Beta's proposed challenge. The Crinos metis crouches nearby to watch.

((Too lazy to switch accounts, deal with it. ))

The metis turns his blood-red gaze back to the Red Talon, eyes completely devoid, as the rest of him, of melanin.

"Son of Gryphon, I do not recognize you. Are you new to this area? You must be, there are too few of your kin here. I am Brings the Light of Luna, born in shame beneath the slivered shadow of Luna. It is a pleasure to meet you."

((In case people suck at reading like me, that's "slivered", not "silvered".))

He doesn't quite bow, but lowers his head and spreads his arms in an expression of welcoming.

Brings the Light of Luna smiles.

"Dead-Eye of Luna's bright Gaze, I would gladly hunt beside you! I fear I may not have much by way of stories, for I have spent most of my life within the Caern of my birth, taking not a step outside its halls for the first twelve years of my life, and only recently leaving it entirely. That said, I will share what I have, and would love to hear your stories. I have always valued the council and word of the Red Talons, for they provide a unique perspective often lost to the Garou. Hmmm...should we go now, or wait for the Master of Challenge to arrive? Personally, I'd like to see this challenge, see what happens and what comes of it. What do you think?"

casey takes off his glasses as he walks in, just a bit slow in coming to the howl for his presence. He glances towards the conversation between Dead Eye and Brings the Light of Luna and frowns before focusing on Walker. He hmphs and narrows his eyes, "Could've warned me you'd changed your mind ahead of time... been getting ready to expect a storyteller's duel rather than a contest between teacher's," before shrugging off the irritation, "But at least its fairly offered."

Turning to Works for Food, "And you have no problem accepting it do you? What sort of challenge would you prefer...? Its your choice to name it so long as its reasonable."

"Works For Food has expressed a desire for a court room style proceeding. Each of us stating our case, and the one most qualified for the position being decided by yourself. Is that accurate Works For Food?"

Casey glances from one Galliard to the other, "Really...," he settles on Mark, "And you have no problem with that particular 'challenge'? Its not what I'd recognize as one, but as long as your both agreed I'll accept and oversee it."

"It's a challenge that cannot be "gamed" either I'm more qualified or I am not. Either I'm more worthy, or I am not."

"If we cant convince you of our qualifications, then we can't be expected to be able to get the ideals important to the Garou nation across to younger members of the sept."

"I didn't come in expecting a job interview, but I see the merits in the approach."

Opens his mouth to say something but shuts it again just as quick, shrugging simply. "Very well then. Lets begin."

"I am Soul of the People, Also known as Mark Walker, a member of the Onondoga tribe through my father. I am without a clan."

"During the day, I run mixed age classes for children of the tribe who range from fifth to twelfth grade. I have a masters in native history, and have my teaching certification in new york state, despite it being unnecessary on tribal lands."

"I am a father, and it's not an easy job. There are times when I know that I'm completely out of my depth. It's a big responsibility, and I'm never sure if I'm not messing up my kids for life. I do my best, but as everyone here knows, even that wasn't enough to keep one of my children safe. That is the largest reason to turn me away. When last I was tested, I was found wanting. I understand if the tribe cannot trust the cubs to me for that reason. I'm not sure if there was anything I could have done, but I don't think I'll find the answer to that question doing nothing."

"I'm still learning, I'm still figuring things out. I think we all are though. I want to help young garou and even kinfolk who are facing problems in our society to learn how to responsibly deal with them, and come out alive on the other side. I want to pass on the old ways and traditions like my grandfather passed them on to me. Teaching the children has always been the most important part of many successful tribes. I want to do my part to ensure that our sept is successful."

"Do you have any questions?"

"I'll have questions in a minute... first, let me hear Works-for-Food's initial argument for himself."

{Rough Cackling Voice breaks at odd moments: Voice of the Jackal !!!}
I think everyone here knows me but for those who Dont I am Works For Food of the Bone Gnawers.
As for qualifications Im Older then most seen a bit more, I have a pretty good knowledge of the Lore of Garou Nation. I been around seen things done things and I can pass this knowlege on !

"Well thats enough to do the job Works-For-Food... its hardly convincing that you'd be a better teacher. How long you've lived is a poor measure of wisdom to pass on, unless you're saying the lupus have nothing to teach us."

'And Walker, am I to assume you teach those students in classes the litany or our ways? You can teach humans but are you ready to train and prepare a garou to be more than a cub?"

"There isn't much difference between teaching math to kids who don't think it'll ever be useful, and teaching Wisdom to cubs who think they know better. If I can be motivated to teach kids something that'll enrich their lives, you can bet I'll be more motivated to teach cubs the things that will save theirs."

Wishbone quietly limps in, merely observing from the tunnel entrance.

Works for food, I pointed out my own largest flaw. If you are unwilling to mention your own then this is not a fair challenge. I'll do it for you.

You are the beta of the sept, even if that were your only other job, it would still be a great burden on your ability to spend time with the cubs, teaching and training them, but that isn't your only job; Beta, Den Father, Master of the Howl, and Talesinger. So you must watch and record and then compose into story or song the great deeds of the sept, help run the sept at large, including all of the logistics therein, and train the cubs in a myriad of different talents and life lessons.

I respect that you managed it until now, but how well will it be handled when the doors to the caern are being broken down. When you must act as a leader of the sept in your duties as beta, and must get the cubs out and to safety in your role as den father. Your duties put you in too many places at the same time. Sure you can assign someone else to get the cubs to safety, but shouldn't you just do that now, before a crisis strikes and it's just another thing you need to think about before you can deal with safeguarding the Caern?

*standing off the the side, watching, Patch's lips seem to tighten ever so slightly as Walker begins his rebuttal, though the momentary expression fades quickly as Walker makes his case*

::seems pleased as MarkWalker makes his case:::

Brings the Light of Luna's eyebrows lower, a look of concern and deep thought on his face. He looks away, clearly thinking, as he traces patterns of glyphs on the ground beside him.

"My first pack since coming back was dedicated to filling in the gaps, to resolving the problems of the Sept that others didn't have time to solve. We listened to Eternal Flame and learned balance. We had to balance our responsibilities to make sure we were available when others were not."

"My new pack, recently formed, is about the protection of those who cannot defend themselves, mainly the kin. We listen to Jaybird, Wisakedjak, and he teaches us not to dwell overly long on our mistakes. To learn from them and push forward."

"I am pushing forward, I am learning from my mistakes, I am filling in a gap, where another doesn't have time. My goal right now is to ensure what happened to my son doesn't happen to anyone else. I am resolute in my determination. I don't know everything, but no garou is an island, nor should they be. It is not just me who will be teaching the young ones if I am Den Father, it will be my pack, it will be my sept. I do not know everything, WE do not know everything, but together we are greater, together we know more.

I have the time and the determination to see this through. Ask yourself Works-For-Food, do you truly have the time? Do you have more determination? or are you simply doing it because there was no one else to do it before now?

Doing a job that no one else will or can is admirable, but if that is your only reason for continuing in the role, and I don't know if it is, then should you really still be the one doing it when someone else is both capable and willing?

No matter how much experience a person in this position may have, he still is only teaching the cubs the first step on their journey. We've both been recognized as having exceeded that first step. We both know what they need to learn. There are many other things for them to learn as well, but much of that can only be taught through experience, like we learned it. A den father keeps them alive and teaches them what they need to know to survive and thrive in our society. We are both capable of such things. I don't question your capability, your wisdom, or your desire to see Cubs properly trained and cared for. I only question your ability to balance all that you have before you, and your desire to truly continue forward in the position you now hold.

Brings the Light of Luna seems...more pleased with what Soul of the People has to say. However he perks with interest when the point of the Red Talon cub was mentioned. He looks like he wants to say something but remains silent.

"Lets go bit by bit."

"Firstly, a Lupus usually learns what he needs to know to survive daily life well before their first change. What he needs to learn is garou society, and human society. From my perspective, it is harder for a homid to learn to fit in with lupus than it is for a lupus to learn to fit in with homids. I think it has to do with wolves knowing the value of stealth as part of their instinct, whereas humans have lost many of their instincts. I most likely won't need to teach a lupus how to be a lupus, if any come here very young and need to know that, of course, there are wolf kin, and lupus wolves here who I can send them to for instruction. I know how to survive in the wild. I've spent a long time as a wolf. I don't think of my lupus form as ME, but I'm not uncomfortable with it either."

"An ahroun is a warrior. There are many stories about the successes and failures of great warriors. I have much I can teach the young one on that count. I personally have dealt with the problems that rage can bring, and can teach that from experience. I can also train them in use of weapons, and in hand to hand fighting, though I am not an expert. Like before, to say that the Ahrouns of the tribe won't be assisting in the rearing of an ahroun cub is ridiculous. They'd beat me senseless if I even suggested not letting them help train an upcoming ahroun."

"Finally, the Red Talons. Though the Wendigo have stories of the Red Talons and respect them, I would be incapable of teaching a young red talon more than cursory bits about his tribe. Tribe matters are just that. The tribes all have their own ways, so while I'd tell him some of the stories I'd heard of his people, I would find a member of his tribe to help give him the training he needs. Should I be unable to get a member of his tribe to come. Despite the danger I would seek out the tribal totem of the Red Talons, and request it's aid in teaching the young member of his tribe. I'd need to trust that given my mission, he'd take pity and not outright destroy me, but it would be my duty to ask, and I would not shirk it."

"It will be my job to ensure cubs receive the training they need, not to personally train every cub."

Casey listens, gaze flickering from challenger to challenged and back before finally clearing his throat. "Thats better... though I have one more question I need answered. You've answered in general, but a den father needs to know who to turn to in the sept. If we stumbled upon a cub tomorrow, say a Fianna born human under the full moon, what mentors would you point him towards specifically?"

"You ask me for specifics on a vague question?"

"I don't KNOW this cub. I haven't had a chance to meet them, to see how much they know already, to see what special needs they may have. Do they lack patience? Is their rage consuming them? Are they having any specific difficulties with this new situation?"

"I cannot say who I would send him to. I expect that I would try to find Brendan as he is of the Fianna and see if he can teach the cub a thing or two, but that's assuming there isn't some conflict of personality between the two that would make Brendan a poor choice. How am I to know if Iain is a better choice without information? Maybe there is no good choice and I will need to seek help at other Caerns."

"For the Ahrouns, I normally wouldn't chose one like Sewer Pipe, who has shown a lack of wisdom, unless the cub in question is incredibly wise on his own, and will be able to see the folly in Sewer Pipes ways, and learn only from his strong fighting spirit. I can't tell, because I don't know this cub. A good Candidate would be Bob if they simply need someone dependable, and Guards the Home if they need more experience with the Lupus, but there are too many variables. The answer might be all of them, or none of them.

"I can personally work with him, as I plan on working, personally with all the cubs, but to give me nothing of the individual, and only his role within our society is to ignore the most important part of the job. It's my job to teach the cub how to survive and thrive in our society, it's not my job to slam them, in all their round peg glory, into a square hole. They will all have their own wants and needs that need to be addressed, and picking mentors for them is part of that."

"Students succeed not when they learn how to learn from the way the teacher teaches, but when the teacher teaches in the way the student best learns."

[Mark looks over to dead eye and shrugs and answers the unasked question]

"We've only talked twice. I also know your tribe doesn't tend to like those who walk on two legs. Given those things, I figured she'd be a more sympathetic ear. There are cases when I feel you would fit better. Perhaps a particularly stubborn homid who feels that humans are in some way better than wolves? You could easily thrash such a pup, and teach him through humiliation what he cannot learn otherwise."

"Like I said, you need to teach someone in the way that they learn best. I don't know the cub in question so I can't say which way is best."

To Dead Eye: "Good to hear."


To the Master of Challenges: "See. Always learning."

Brings the Light of Luna leans over to the Red Talon and speaks softly for a moment.

The Silver Fang nods in agreement and moves back.

Casey frowns a bit at the answer, but relaxes as he listens to the interjection with Deadeye and even smiles faintly. "I think you'll find most of the need a bit more structure than that... one thing all cubs need to learn is how to fit in the garou nation and while its not always a harsh lesson it is one that involves pushing them towards those square holes as you put it, but otherwise your logic sounds good to me, and thanks to deadeye you've already corrected the only other concern I had."

Turning to Works for Food he lets out a sigh, "How about you, can you offer any better answer or have any other point to raise before I make my decision?"