renown rumble in the jungle.

In this corner, the new york sensation, the ayatollah of rock, the sultan of scissors, the prince of paper, the one, the only, tpo of sewer pipe, Iggy!

And in the other corner, anyone silly enough to engage him in a debate on: "no longer dividing glory renown"

My proposal is simple. I am not suggesting a kill system, the game explicitly states that garou all share the glory for their actions. this is a team game, a team system. Simply stop dividing the glory based on your rank.

For those who don't know, when you reach rank 3 what ever temp renown you get is divided by 4. that is irksome for the other auspices... but for Ahrouns and galliards, it is game killing.

We are considering something along these lines...

I think we three actually talked about this in front of Charles Cabin: IN tabletop the overwhelming majority of your time is spent... well... going out and doing adventures. From module-esque Werewolf stuff to monster bashing etc. So Glory, in TT, is more plentiful. Downtime stuff for Tabletops is pretty much the heart and soul of MET LARPS...

The focus of session is a chance to interact and RP, and while that does include a fair amount of comabt, it is comparatively very small. In LARP you get much more wisdom, honor, and social interaction with every other werewolf in the sept. Those character are usually NPCs you barely talk to in Tabletop games. A game, mind you, where you - by definition - have your own ST all night lol.

So... yes, it is an issue but we are not unaware of it and we are working towards a balanced solution to solve it.

I just gave you a balanced solution. Stop dividing Glory. It is rare, it is more risky to get, it is far more time intensive and we need tons of it. Stop slicing it up. Bam. Done.

Two sessions ago I saved half the sept. No exagerration. I facedown a BSD pack of rank 3's or better after the majority of people around me got dropped, while healing ashmoore, dealing 9 damage, checking on my pack, saving mischa and the nannehei, eating silver and gifts along the way. It was epic, it was badass, it was probably the third most important battle i have been in in my Garou career, short only building a friggin caern and slaying a dragon.

it got me 3 temp glory.

That's it.

I would have to be in a battle that epic every month till *thinks* next April to rank, assuming i didnt lose any glory along the way and i got rites of accomplishment at the perfect time every time. The likelihood of any ahroun or galliard surviving that many epic battles to get that much glory? Not much above zero. Compare that to the other auspices much easier time grinding renown by doing the kind of downtime actions that take no effort (I guard the caern in my report) and require no risk (I learn a ritual), and that are even rewarded in their very selves (wait, i get renown for making talens and fetishes?!... I GET renown, which makes me awesomer, by making a magic item that any larper would already be doing?).... pose that versus the implausibility of gaining glory in the downtime? and since it is relegated to glory gaining in the actual game in long combat scenes? we have to spend every session not only risking our character, but missing the roleplaying if we wanna rank in a year.

Stop dividing the far and awary hardest and riskiest renown to get.

Problem solved.... and maybe people will wanna play one of the least played, underpowered and hardest/riskiest auspices.

I have some suggestions on making it a bit more balanced, but it does require more ST involvement within the structure of this.
If the ST's would like to change or discuss anything on that I would rather talk to them directly than open a can of worms as the renown should be more of a secret on how to get it than a checklist of to do stuff.

I've spoken to many people about this... and gone over. We're still in discussions as to what to do.

For now, if you get 3-4 temp glory... get a Galliard to sing about it. Because it really isn't 3, it's 6. If it's 5 it's a whole point.... so we're not going down that path of really turboing renown without doing any division.

Something additive might come out of these discussions...

In any event, we'll talk about it next session or something. But for right now, we're going to keep working on this from the staff's side and if anything changes we'll let you know.

There's also always the possibility of researching new gifts or rites.  Say, a Galliard gift called "Spin the Story" which lets you swap temporary renown from one category to another (maybe at 2 for 1 or something...)

How do the other games handle this?

I'd be interested in hearing some novel ideas.. but rank clocking is ... just.... aweful. counting kills is pretty aweful too...

The reason we are doing it this way was because we looked at some other systems and this was the least terrible we could do lol...

Kill counting is dumb. Garou are pack creatures, and while killing blows are worth something to some tribes (get) they shouldn't be the end all for renown.

Good we all agree Kill Counting is Bad *shoots the critter Pipe was just about to finish off and does a happy dance*

I think well Im still wrapping my head around it but yea I really do agree with James/ Father Rhodes that keeping a little bit of mystery in the system is appropriate.

Shockingly I disagree with that entirely. In every other way, we know ooc the mechanics... and btw, I just looked up all the renown ups and downs. They are in the books.

That aside, there are just not many ways to gain glory outside of in game hours long combat scenes where you risk your pc.
and that is legit, glory should involve risk.
but since it is harder, rarer and riskier, we shouldn't be quartering the value of it, especially when two auspices need it so damn badly.

hmm think I just figured it out just sit at fostern banking the renown till you have enough for say elder then start challenging . This way the renown isn't in the toilet once ya hit rank three.

Rank challenges sucking are a whole seperate issue.

There has been a certain disparity... Sometimes they're kind of softballed, other times they've been extreme.. but that plays into garou politics as well.

I have not been overwhelmed.

One thing is that it would be helpful to clarify what constitutes a "threat."  The brown book says to treat each threat as a single encounter, the example given being that four BSDs is one very powerful foe as opposed to four strong foes.

Well and good.

However, at least some people are under the impression that ALL of the opponents faced in a session are being treated as a single "threat"--which is not, I would argue, supported by the book, and seriously handicaps those who need Glory by effectively restricting them to a single award per session no matter what, while honor and wisdom can come from many sources.

Could an ST clarify what constitutes a "threat?"  Can an Ahroun get multiple glory awards from multiple battles in one session?

Could there be something that Ahrouns could do to gain glory in the down time? Board Scenes? Perhaps going Bane hunting?

I have 2 ideas to toss out to everyone.  Either one should solve this problem.

1) Track Fractional points of Temporary Renown And Print it on Character sheets.  A rank 3 Ahroun gets 1/3 of a temporary point of glory for engaging in a challenge.  The ahroun player will get to see this on the character sheet the next month.

This will let Iggy, other Ahrouns and Galliards see progress every month.

OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR...OR

2) Have different amounts of required temporary renown for gaining a permanent point of renown. Use the following Chart:

Rank	Minimum needed to gain a Permanent point	Automatic Rollover
Cub	10	15
Cliath	10	15
Fostern	20	25
Adren	30	35
Athro	40	45
Elder	50	55

Either system keeps the ST current system to slow down ranking without making it look like you are stagnate in your progression towards the next rank.  It is slow but, you see it.

Just going to drop something in regarding what Chris said, because I've seen it come up repeatedly.

As Ahroun, if there's a discussion about, ordering a pizza, who should do what, or just about anything you should be itching to fight over it. Getting into those brawls with one another is the 1 point glory grind you can most easily do in the downtime. Dueling with each other, training, that sort of thing is exactly what less-than-lethal fighting means.

There are definitely ways of grinding glory - while those fights aren't cumulative, neither are making talens. It's sort of a "Did you do this type of activity? Achievement unlocked." type of thing. Players seem averse to this sort of thing, but it's how Glory functions. So if someone wants pepperoni, and you want mushrooms and you're not sure if you've gotten into a fight this month..... fight it out.

Just saying.

Also, yes, Bane hunting/minor threat hunting is defintely something that can be done in the downtime. Glory is the riskiest renown to get... that's a fact... but part of the problem has been one of perception that there's no way to establish a baseline. An admittedly low one, but still a baseline.