June Event Planning

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June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:02 pm

June 15th.............2.12 In the Shadow of the Western Hills....Half Moon....Allegany State Park

Let's look ahead to the far-distant spring. We discussed this lightly last year, but it never really came together, so let's get a plan together. Ideally, we would rent a site in a quieter end of the park and run for two days (6/15-6/16) if folks are down for that. Single day is an option too, but a weekend seems like it would be more fun.

Something that would be fun, or terrible terrible idea? Smile

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:13 pm

Sounds fun. Especially if we could maybe find a tie-in for other genre games, allowing it to be a large enough event to draw some visitors. People like camping events like Nonclave, and this would be new and therefore shiny.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:20 pm

Good call.

If there was sufficient interest, I'd like to form a planning committee of say, three folks, say me and two players who want to help out, to work out the logistics of this. I'll bring it up for further discussion at session; but if there's one thing OWBN Garou players seem to love, it's camping. :p

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:38 pm

Cool, we can get a 75 person campsite for $500 a night. That's not... terrible.

/Nope, no weekends in June available for that one. It's going to take more than a five minute google-whack to get all the info. Poop. Back to work.

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*cracks nuckles*

Post  Rides the Nights Wind on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:25 am

Ok...
I have a place to stay since my Hunting Cabin is hmmm 20 min outside the park and I have family in Salamanca. 10 Years ago I would have said let me call my Aunt at the Park registration office and make arrangements but well my Aunt retired and registration is now a computer in California:evil:
As an Added bonus all the Uktena and Wendigo can meet at the Buffet line at the Alleghency Cassino:roll:

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Sean Reily on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:55 am

That sounds great. I would volunteer for the committee.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Skippy Pathfinder on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:15 pm

Yay! Make this happen, Responsible People (tm)!

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Re:June Event Planning

Post  Robert McIntoch on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:52 pm

Umm a Idea that i had was to hold the Event in Sherman n.y. at Brushwood Folklore Center its a nice campground and its $10.00 a night

just a idea?
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:54 pm

The problem with just renting tent space, is we need to be able to support decent regional turnout; which means we need a block of space. Makes the problem a bit more complicated, especially if we want out own private area to run.

But I may be overthinking it, we'll talk more at session.

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*evil grin*

Post  Rides the Nights Wind on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:30 pm

I did some more research while I was trying to stay awake last night.
The Park has 2 group camps one for up to 75 people and one for up to 100 so doing a very simple math at $500 per night we have to do it off season to only rent it for 2 nights then we are talking $1000 plus food and Fire Wood. So high end around $1500 dollars not unreasonable if we are deviding it up among say 50 or so people but then that push's food cost up some as well.
If we only have 25 people this is going to run around $60 or so each. So do we have committment for that many.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:31 pm

I think we can reasonably assume 50 people, if it's a cross-genre event. If we give the vamps some reason to come / play, etc. So asking a $40 site fee should cover things nicely. It isn't much more than Nonclave charges, and the site is better.

If it's Garou only, 50 might be a stretch. At that rate, we'd probably need to charge more like $50 or $60. Still possible, but it would likely be just FW players and a few other Buffalo gamers who make the trip.

If anyone can make like T-Shirts for the event or something for a relatively low price, we can sell them at sign-in like Nonclave does, and that adds a second revenue-stream which should make up any difference between estimated attendance and actual attendance.

There is some risk of a loss there, however. $1500 is not a small amount...

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Wishbone on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:17 am

I wonder how much Stone Haven runs for a weekend nowadays? We're not a contact LARP, so the insurance issue shouldn't come up...

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Silent Night on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:36 am

i was just thinking that ben. Its close and a really nice place and could handle 100 people or so. But no drinking since it is a boy scout camp. Pluse side we get a cpl cabins Smile and fishing as long as they dont have boy scouts out there i dont think it would be more than 500 for fri sat sunday.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:51 am

I like Stone Haven, it's a cool site. Used to go there a lot.

That said, no drinking will vastly reduce our org turn-out. If we can find a wet site, it will be much better for our attendance.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Bob MacCoy on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:27 am

Parts of June is outside of the normal times that the local BSA council rents the camp ground to Boy Scouts. Greater Niagara Frontier Council would need to be directly contacted in order to rent it. I am only seeing them having a scout function on June 28-30.

This is good because they will boot us for a Scout group with little notice. So, we could potentially rent the whole camp during camps off season.

I know that when summer camp is running, Stonehaven would be empty as they do not rent to scout groups to get the troops to go to the summer camp program running at Scouthaven. It runs from the beginning of July for 6-8 weeks, usually. So, If we delay till July the whole of Stonehaven could be rented.

But we would have the issue of it being a dry camp but also a non-smoking camp.
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Re:June Event Planning

Post  Robert McIntoch on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:32 am

Ahhhhhhh StoneHaven Remember going thier when Midland was still going, Smile No Smoking just means Ether Smoke in your Car or get & use a E cig's As of the Alcahol ift Coffee is better i'll be bringing my 20 cup Perkalator LOADS of Sugar & Non Dary creamer.

ALL Right you Bloody Fianna, its time to PARTY
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*evil chuckle*

Post  Rides the Nights Wind on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:40 am

Allegany State Park does not allow smoking in the Cabins either I dont know about the hole park but most public area are also non-smoking welcome to New York State.
Given my choices I would choose Allegany for several reason - Its much much larger then Stone Haven which would be great for local events and say a Winter Weekend.
1. We can take a tour of the Bear Caves.
2. It is significantly closer to groups in Ohio and PA and might appeal to them.
3. The group camps at Allegany have neat central cabin with facilites and a good number of outer Cabins.
4. Its just plain a different place

But Mostly #2

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:39 am

Yeah... Forgot Stone Haven is no smoking. That is right out. Cannot host an Org event at a no smoking site. No one will come.

Allegheny sounds good though.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  MarkWalker on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:38 am

I would push for any other weekend in June. Given the conflict with Origins, I can't skip my Anniversary, and that takes place on the Friday of Origins.

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*cripey*

Post  Rides the Nights Wind on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:18 am

Damn that would be bad conflicting with Origins it would seriously impact attendance.... and April might conflict with UBCon.... we might have to choose to do it not on a third weekend ???

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:52 am

Meh, it won't matter. The world ends in 8 days anyway.

Seriously though, conflicting with any gaming events would not be a good idea.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Silent Night on Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:04 pm

Here is a hint every state park/fedral land park is no smokeing now. But everyone still does it. Just do it away from other people and police/field strip your butts. Benifit for stonehaven is its closer to us and we would have the whole camp to ourselves and hey its nostolgic to some of us.Allegahny is closer to other larps which could bring players from other reagons there.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:19 pm

Yes, but the difference is that at Stone Haven we could be thrown off-site for smoking anywhere, wheres at Allegheny that would only happen if someone were caught smoking IN a Cabin, or butts were not policed.

More importantly, an event at Stone Haven will have low to no out-of-town turn out. The moment people hear it's a boyscout camp, they'll write it off. Trust me on this one. The rumor-mill will basically say "A boyscout camp for WOD? As ironic as that is, no smoking AND no drinking? Screw that."

Allegheny is better for a number of reasons, take your pick of whichever strikes you as the best.

1. Closer to out-of-town players. This cannot be overstated as a draw.
2. Drinking.
3. Better / Nicer site.
4. Easier to find / travel to.
5. No reference to boyscouts in the event announcement.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:21 pm

As an additional suggestion, whatever park hosts the event, we should give containers out at sign in for cigarette butts.

Nonclave does something cool with this, they used to give out M&M minis in those little tubes. The gamers got to eat the M&Ms and then use the tubes for their cigarette butts.

It ensures that people keep the place clean, as they should.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:32 pm

Let's open up to any weekend in june. I don't want to conflict with origins. More site options anyhoo.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Bob MacCoy on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:29 pm

I would enforce the no smoking rule with the Dads is can you see the scouts or the ranger do not light up, go farther into the woods to smoke.

As long as you do not smoke where the ranger can see you and pack out your buts, we should be fine for you to smoke off to the side in a scout camp.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Silent Night on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:36 pm

Gotta agree with ya there bob i smoked at the camp for years but it was in the woods and i field striped my butts. Ranger Ott had no problem with us back then.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:44 pm

Yeah, but that isn't what people do at event games. If they are outside, they stop wherever they are and light up. They walk the trails, talking and chain-smoking. They smoke right outside of Cabins, and they do NOT look around for Rangers first.

If you had ever been to Nonclave, this wouldn't even be a debate to you. LARPers, and especially OWbNers, are chain-smokers. We can't expect attendees to hide their smoking.

It is already hard enough to even get them to police their butts.

Plus, at risk of repeating myself:

DRINKING

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:06 pm

Booze is not optional. Smokers, on the other hand, are used to being a persecuted minority, and can be as subtle as they need to be. :p

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Dasota on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:21 pm

I think if it were a dry event it wouldn't stop very many people from coming, and the ones it would? Eh, oh well. We're going to game, not get trashed. And if that's the only reason you're not going to a dry event, you better get your drinking problem under control.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:23 pm

It might not stop people from coming, but they WILL smuggle booze on site. Drinking and LARPing, regardless of what the base-book might say, belong together.

Inevitably, as often happens at Nonclave, someone will get caught, and that results in potential fines and the like.

Not worth it. Better to just have a wet site.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Silent Night on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:31 pm

Well this is starting to sound like its a drinking event not a gameing event. If its all about drinking hell lets go to a bar, but if its to all get together and play while camping and cooking out lets do that then.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Dasota on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:31 pm

Speaking from experience? Oh that's right, you are. Why not just obey the rules? That's right, it's impossible to expect people to. It's why they get banned from stuff.

Also, Stonehaven is so much cheaper. If I were you, I'd be jumping for the cheaper location, and I will definitely say that I would prefer Stonehaven for that fact alone.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:34 pm

Seems like there's a solid debate to be had on this one. That's not a bad thing.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:38 pm

You're right, I am speaking from experience, having attended an event that is almost exactly what we are discussing here five years running. It's not a question of obeying rules. It's a question of providing motivation for people to attend.

People want to be able to drink when they go camping with a bunch of their adult friends.

Many fence-sitters who are looking for reasons to not come and save the gas / attendance fee will take a dry site as a reason.

Why give them reasons not to come?

The difference in price between the two is not that drastic, especially when you consider the vastly higher attendance that Allegheny will have because of it's location.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:50 pm

Plus, and again speaking from experience, Stonehaven simply isn't a very good site for this kind of event.

There is entirely too much hiking involved to get to cabins, and much of the camping space is Lean-tos. Or at least it was nearly 10 years ago when I still went there regularly.

LARPers, with a few exceptions, don't really like to hike.

EDIT:: I also had smaller legs back then, so I may be overstating the hiking.


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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Silent Night on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:55 pm

benifits

stone haven:cheaper, closer to us, close to niagra falls for out of towners to go and see, 3 cabins and the whole camp just to us, no what i like to call civilans IE: non gamers,money goes to boy scouts a good orginazation

allegany:closer to other out of towners,drinking,larger area

cons

stone haven: not widely known, no drinking,

allegany:more expensive, farther travel for locals,Civilans all over the place

these are just what i see as pros and cons
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:59 pm

Maybe there is a happy medium? Some other park / campground that is a little closer than Allegheny, wet, and relatively easy to get to without being full of "norms".

Any ideas?

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Re:June Event Planning

Post  Robert McIntoch on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:08 pm

Ok Well my Idea about going to Sherman n.y. @ Brushwood, It is Smoker friendly cig and or 420 friendly Drinking is Allowed one can Esaly have over 100 people show up Its only two hours from buffalo It is a Clothing Optional Camp ground lol.

Plusses: Real Tolits, Heated Showers, a pool, two hot tubs Smile a open roundhouse with a large firepit in the center, thier is a trailer/cabin for them wimps who cant sleep in tents wich can sleep about 12 people The Cabin/trailer runs at $15.00 a night.

Con's: Not many realy enless your a wimpy camper lol they have a large wood shed i "think" its ether $5.00 or $10.00 a Wheel Barrow worth, Bring your own Food enless your going to drive 10-15 mins into town.

May & June only have two events each month In June bring some warm Blankets and Clothing the Nights do get a bit Nippy outside.

As For Policing ourselfs get some wrist bands for thouse 21 & over so that thiers no under age drinking.

Also the Campground is Pagan Based many groups that go thier made thier own Personal camp sites Be Respectfull is all.

Also if you have a old world Drum or Insrament it can be played in the roundhouse wich can easly hold 100 people...

ST's Go to Brushwood.com its thier web site
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:11 pm

That's not a terrible idea, though the "Clothing Optional" statement makes me cringe.

No offense meant, but skyclad is not a costume I want to see most gamers in.

That said, it sounds pretty cheap. I don't think OWbN has ever done a tent-camping event. I don't know if that would be a positive or a negative for visitors...

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Dasota on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:14 pm

The clothing optional bit is most definitely a con and not a pro. Also the 420 bit could be a problem for many people because of their jobs and stuff and they'd rather just be plain not around it at all.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:17 pm

Dasota wrote:The clothing optional bit is most definitely a con and not a pro. Also the 420 bit could be a problem for many people because of their jobs and stuff and they'd rather just be plain not around it at all.

This.

If we never mentioned the clothing optional bit or the 420 bit in the event announcements, etc, and we were able to have a completely private campground where naked pagans weren't walking in on our gaming / eating / socializing, it could work.

Again, no offense meant to naked pagans everywhere.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Silent Night on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:20 pm

As far as cloths go im not ashamed of what god gave me on the other hand i really REALLY dont want to go blind or in the nut house trying to get the images out of my mind.....shudder charles in a thong.....eewww. As for the 420 thing its against the law period end of discussion! so yeah dont thinks this is a place for us.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:20 pm

I did tent camping with camarilla fan club. It was fun.

John has the right of it. If we could leave that on the DL if might be an option. But let's keep finding site options.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:28 pm

I didn't know you did CFC Brian. Remind me to pick your brain about it sometime. People keep telling me it has huge advantages over OWbN, but after reading their rules and stuff it doesn't seem that way to me. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Anyway, completely off-topic.

What about down by Chautauqua? It's awesome country, with some really nice campgrounds. Anyone know anything about pricing / availability / etc down that way?

It would be relatively centrally located for our Ohio and Southern neighbors.

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Stbrian on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:36 pm


Quick ot reply.
CFC is basically a larper pyramid scam, at least back in the day it was. I chose OWBN as the superior network, and its worked out pretty well so far. That said, there are great GMs and players in that org too.

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Re:June Event Planning

Post  Robert McIntoch on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:39 pm

lol :p i knew the Clothing Part was going to get a cring or two lol

The Cabin/Trailer is Heated and Handycaped Assesible mind you the roads are stone roads so if someone is handycapped and uses a chair my addvice would be get a hoveraround chair and or friends to help you get someplaces.

Like i said to the ST's Go to their Web Site the Place is called Brushwood Folklore Center thier is a site area for thouse with campers/moterhomes.

One of the areas Made by the Reguals is a Small patch of ground called "the Eternal Bic" the area is a graveyard for Bic Lighters who have passed on, put your old friend"s" thier with a penny for the ferryman...

In the Roundhouse the Firepit is a 6 foot around circle in the center, the roundhouse is big enuff to hold at lest 100 people..

Ohh did i forget about the Heated HOT TUBS.

Ok I'm Sorry That i Brought up the 420 But thier are some wooded areas & well i'll leave that thought to you all.

As for the Clothing part most of thouse who do it is duering the Months of July and August ALLOT WARMER Days lol in June thier is Shrinkige lol
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Silent Night on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:02 pm

As for the whole 420 thing did i mention its against the law and the fact that some of us can loose our jobs if its anywere near us IE: i dont even want to smell it. Im not risking my all my work just cause someone wants to break the law. You do it while im there and i catch you get wind of it have fun talking to the cops. I will not jepordize everything i've worked for just so you can get high.
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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Scytheborn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:06 pm

Well... that entire line of conversation is completely irrelevant.

Anyone have ideas about where this event could be hosted?

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Re: June Event Planning

Post  Silent Night on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:27 pm

Its not irrelevant when someone brings up that the site is 420 friendly and hints at what you do in the woods is ok.Drug use at a event sould not be allowed and in doing so should get you banned for life and a talking to by the local athorities.I hope the st's will agree with me on that one. As for a site i say try to keep it close to us within a hour drive at least .
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