Survivor: What's the point?

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Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Wishbone on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:52 pm

The more I look at the revised version of the advanced Bonegnawer gift Survivor, the more I'm frankly bewildered by exactly what it's supposed to do.

The main function of the gift is that, at the cost of a Gnosis and a physical challenge, the Bone Gnawer can shake off the need for food, water, and sleep for 24 hours. Immediately after this, he must sleep for eight hours and awakens ravenously hungry.

Is it just me, or is that singularly unimpressive? Normal humans can go a day without food, water, and sleep and then sleep for 8 hours and awaken ravenously hungry. It's not particularly healthy, but it's hardly a superhuman feat. If a Garou player without Survivor says "I'm going to go a day without food, sleep, or water," are the STs going to rule that he can't? It doesn't seem likely--so why would anyone ever make use of a gift function that lets them do something they could already do, costs Gnosis, and forces the player to collapse afterwards?

Now, granted, the gift also makes you resistant to temperature extremes and weather...but, really, how often are those a factor? Any climate conditions extreme enough to cause significant damage are probably going to be beyond the scope of the gift by most people's interpretations. I doubt most STs would rule that Survivor allows you to ignore the temperature extremes of a raging fire, for instance, or survive exposure to lava. What climate conditions does this gift defend against that would threaten a normal Garou? And then, of course, there's the "pass out after using the Gift" factor. A Garou down in the Amazon might find this nice to stay all cool and comfy...if it weren't for the fact that he's going to be forced to sleep for eight hours and then gorge after using it.

The gift also provides immunity to normal poisons and disease, and limited resistance to Wyrm-toxins. However, Garou are already supposed to be immune to normal disease, and most Gnawers are going to already be immune to normal poisons. Again: not seeing a lot here that's impressive.

Finally, the gift can give you a three-trait boost in Physical challenges and (effectively) Resist Pain...for 10 rounds, after which you pass out for eight hours. In a serious fight, this seems like a suicidal gamble. Either you win the fight in 10 rounds, or you die. Is a 3-trait bonus really worth that risk?

Am I missing something here? I understand that they decided the old version was too powerful (though given that it's directly comparable to Aegis, I don't understand why.) But the more I look at the new version, the more I realize that it doesn't really seem to do anything of significance.

What am I overlooking? Can someone with experience using the gift tell me why it's worthwhile?
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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Ashmoore on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:31 pm

Well, it might have saved Adom from his "Super-Cancer." =)

I agree it's pretty weak. But at least you don't have to play a Strider (can run on water? kthx, I will fly). You get to be one of the best tribes in terms of camps/gifts already - you just get saddled with an underwhelming Advanced gift.
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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Skippy Pathfinder on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:22 pm

You're right. Clearly the only way for this gift to be fair is if it lets you survive 8 hours in deep space.
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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Wishbone on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:13 pm

Well, yeah, it might've saved him...until he fell asleep after 24 hours. Smile

It's not even a question of underpowered. I just keep feeling like there must be something to it that I'm missing. Most "underpowered" gifts at least have situations where they're useful. I'm trying to figure out what those are in this case.
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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Ashmoore on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:31 pm

Upon reading it, it doesn't seem that there is any reason you cannot activate it multiple times in a row or nearing the time when the gift wears off. In effect, this would make it last as long as you have gnosis to spend and can win a physical chop - a very long time for an elder garou with meditation -which would fit with the survival idea and make a bonegnawer able to last much longer than a single day in those conditions (lack of food, extreme climate, etc). Then again, that all depends on the last line being "vague" since it doesn't say when this activation of the gift wears off, just the gift in general.


Last edited by Ashmoore on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Stbrian on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:38 pm

Other thoughts:

(a) Traits are money in the bank in a system with no way to win ties.
(b) Certainly makes Erebus or other umbral realms a bit easier.
(c) You use it not when you're fresh, but on the verge of breaking, which can make all the difference.

It's toolboxy.

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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Wishbone on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:00 pm

Ashmoore wrote:Upon reading it, it doesn't seem that there is any reason you cannot activate it multiple times in a row or nearing the time when the gift wears off. In effect, this would make it last as long as you have gnosis to spend and can win a physical chop - a very long time for an elder garou with meditation -which would fit with the survival idea and make a bonegnawer able to last much longer than a single day in those conditions (lack of food, extreme climate, etc). Then again, that all depends on the last line being "vague" since it doesn't say when this activation of the gift wears off, just the gift in general.


That's a very interesting interpretation, and exactly the kind of thing I was asking about--it never occurred to me that you might be able to stave off the "crash period" by reactivating the gift. That would definitely put the gift into the territory of an Advanced gift, and make it well worth taking.

Brian? Is this a valid reading?
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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Stbrian on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:05 pm

Yeah. That seems right. I would probably rule after two weeks or so the crash will kill you, but that's barely a drawback if you're in that situation.

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*evil grin*

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:35 pm

I still say that for an Advanced Gift they should have kept the version that was Aegis with survive in deep space, or Burning Desert.

But heaven help the poor Human that tries to wake you up 7 hours and 59 min after you collapse after using the gift for 3 strait days while you walked out of the Sahara Desert....

*looking at the Leg hanging out of your mouth and realizing... damn they do just taste like Chicken.* Sad

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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Skippy Pathfinder on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:47 pm

That was...the very best response ever, Charles. Nom.
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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

Post  Sewer Pipe on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:07 am

In a game where bone gnawers aren't known for heroic survival in combat but roach like ability to survive depravation and hardship I like the multi activation version, as muc as I would like to have aegis in a misty dim and hopeful future.
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Re: Survivor: What's the point?

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